Inside Frameless: The UK’s #1 Immersive Art Experience with Rosie O'Connor

[-00:00:00:01 - 00:00:22:11] Steve welcome to the Experience Designers, your front row seat to the world of experiences. And today we're here in London at Frameless, one of the top immersive experiences here in London. And today we're going to give you an exclusive behind the scenes of what makes Frameless so memorable, meaningful and above all immersive. [00:00:43:19 - 00:00:44:04] Steve Rosie. [00:00:44:04 - 00:00:45:03] Rosie Hi. [00:00:45:03 - 00:00:48:03] Steve Welcome to the Experience Designers. [00:00:48:03 - 00:00:49:11] Rosie Thank you so much for having me. [00:00:49:11 - 00:01:17:15] Steve Thank you actually for having us. As you can see, we're here at the central, or the belly of Frameless here in central London. And yeah, I just really wanted to kind of kick off this conversation just in terms of exploring like, Frameless as a business and your role within it. Just in terms of like, what does it represent for you in terms of your career and your role here in business? [00:01:18:17 - 00:01:49:01] Rosie I think Frameless for me represents that art is for everyone. We really want to be a space where anyone is welcome to come and experience art. And for me, that is hugely exciting because one of my sort of passions in my career is to get people into art and to see that it's not the scary academic thing. It can be something that's fun and joyful and they can get curious about it. So that's, yeah. [00:01:49:01 - 00:01:51:07] Steve Love that. So tell us a little bit about your background. [00:01:52:09 - 00:01:54:00] Rosie So my background is I'm an art historian [00:01:55:05 - 00:01:58:06] Rosie and I actually started in the art world and the art dealing world. [00:01:59:17 - 00:02:08:20] Rosie My research background is looking at multi-sensory art and how that can make art more accessible for people with sensory impairments. [00:02:09:21 - 00:02:13:22] Rosie So taking the principles of inclusive design and applying that to museum or gallery. [00:02:14:23 - 00:02:23:01] Rosie So for me, Frameless was the most exciting opportunity and I never worked with this kind of technology before. [00:02:24:02 - 00:02:45:19] Rosie So that was super, super exciting to see how we could really take these pieces of art, use the technology to bring them to life and tell their story in a really impactful way and hopefully bring out a sort of emotional response from the audience. [00:02:45:19 - 00:02:49:11] Steve Yeah, but any good immersive experience, definitely. [00:02:50:18 - 00:02:57:16] Steve Can I just ask as well, just from a art historian for this kind of academia to now working in awe, [00:03:00:05 - 00:03:11:23] Steve what's been your involvement? And it's an interesting choice for the business to obviously partner with an art historian like yourself and just to get a sense of your role within the journey. [00:03:11:23 - 00:03:16:09] Rosie Yeah, so they invited me to be the consultant curator for it. [00:03:17:16 - 00:03:27:02] Rosie And I think from the start of the journey from Frameless, they wanted to make sure that it had art historical integrity. [00:03:28:08 - 00:03:48:03] Rosie I think, as you know, there's been a lot of immersive art experiences out there, some amazing, some maybe slightly missed the mark. But to have an art historian who can advise on, this is the story behind the art, this is the kind of story we should be telling, this is the feeling, [00:03:49:12 - 00:03:54:17] Rosie what the artist's mindset was at the time while painting it. [00:03:55:17 - 00:04:03:09] Rosie So I think that has been really valuable working and helping the creative director in that process. [00:04:04:19 - 00:04:22:03] Rosie It really makes it that the art is at the heart of it. And I think we're trying to honor the art through what we do at Frameless and give people an experience that is emotional and makes them feel something. And I think we've achieved it. [00:04:22:03 - 00:04:26:18] Steve Yeah. How does this kind of evolution of the form, [00:04:28:06 - 00:04:41:17] Steve how has this kind of evolved from the more traditional like art environments that we're all so used to and historically very used to, isn't it, in terms of its style, its setup, its structure, it tends to be quite similar in many respects. [00:04:41:17 - 00:04:45:15] Steve how is Frameless different? How have they created to make it so unique? [00:04:47:04 - 00:04:50:00] Rosie From other massive experiences or from museums and galleries. [00:04:50:00 - 00:04:51:07] Steve From museums, I think, yeah. [00:04:51:07 - 00:04:57:17] Rosie Yeah, I mean, museums and galleries, I grew up going to them, I love going to museums and galleries. [00:04:58:21 - 00:05:52:21] Rosie I think what is exciting about using technology, it means that you can enhance the art in ways that obviously you can't when you're assigned in front of it. And also a big part of that is, we have artworks here that are all over the world. Lots of people can't travel to go and see them in person, they often don't tour that often, some really famous artworks. So it's giving people that access to something. But also, it's sort of a heightened experience because we're bringing it to life. So I remember when we first opened and I was speaking to a visitor and she said, I knew this artwork really well, but I never noticed these details. Because it was blown up and she was literally immersed in it, she started to see it in a different way. And that was really exciting for me. So it can offer something new, [00:05:54:00 - 00:05:57:00] Rosie not just kind of replicating it and bringing it to life. [00:05:57:00 - 00:05:58:10] Steve Yeah, I love that. [00:05:58:10 - 00:06:14:14] Steve I just explore as well? Just as a art historian, when you go to traditional art galleries and you stand in front of a piece of art, what do you look for? What do you, yeah, how do you engage with the art? [00:06:14:14 - 00:06:20:02] Rosie So for me, I don't actually look at what they've written about the art. [00:06:21:24 - 00:06:23:12] Rosie I tend to go on feeling. [00:06:24:12 - 00:06:47:13] Rosie So I often go into, you know, lots of big museums have these enormous rooms with a lot of art. And it can feel quite overwhelming and for my art god, I need to go and see everything. For me, I try to just see what I'm naturally drawn to. So whether that's like color or composition and see what it makes me feel, why am I drawn to that? [00:06:48:15 - 00:06:50:01] Rosie Then also I'll look at it for a while, [00:06:51:03 - 00:07:12:17] Rosie see how I'm feeling, why I'm feeling that way. And that could be calmness, or it could be kind of curiosity, or even if I really don't like something, I'll feel like, why is that? What is it about it? Then I will look at what they've written about it to kind of inform my thoughts already and then sort of adjust. [00:07:14:04 - 00:07:23:21] Steve And how does that, how has your kind of journey with frameless, has that changed in how you view art as part of this shift in the form? [00:07:23:21 - 00:07:41:08] Rosie I don't think so. I mean, I still, for me, it's all about feeling. And it's the same with frameless. I think we were constantly trying to give a feeling of a painting, whether that's through the visuals or the music, trying to bring out that sort of emotional response for visitors. [00:07:42:10 - 00:07:47:22] Rosie And I think if you're being guided by emotion, you can't go hugely far wrong. [00:07:49:16 - 00:08:05:05] Rosie We tried to avoid just using tech for tech's sake. You can do amazing things with technology, but it doesn't always mean you should. If you start from the art and then you tell that story and you tell the emotion of that art, it's always gonna have resonance. [00:08:06:11 - 00:08:07:16] Rosie So yeah, I don't think so. [00:08:07:16 - 00:08:17:17] Steve Agreed. And what was, just talk us through some of the creative process for frameless since you joined and the journey that they've been on. What's kind of been the process to get it to where it is today? [00:08:17:17 - 00:08:24:04] Rosie Well, they have this incredible space in central London Marble Arch for galleries. [00:08:25:05 - 00:08:31:00] Rosie And I think the creative director has a concept for the four different galleries and what kind of art [00:08:32:09 - 00:08:37:04] Rosie he wanted and the technology that was gonna match that art and really bring it to life. [00:08:38:10 - 00:08:45:08] Rosie So when I came on board, it was, we need to narrow down what artists we're going to bring in. [00:08:46:09 - 00:08:58:07] Rosie And also we really wanted a mix of artists. So we wanted those heavy hitters of people that are gonna recognize and feel comfortable with, [00:08:59:07 - 00:09:11:06] Rosie but also we were really keen to bring in artists that they maybe hadn't heard of and paintings they'd never seen so that they're seeing something new and hopefully inspired to go and learn more. [00:09:12:22 - 00:09:17:23] Rosie I think if you're just bringing artwork that is in sort of cultural cycles, [00:09:19:22 - 00:09:52:04] Rosie it's quite expected and boy, I don't think they get as much from it. So I think we've got a nice mix of artworks that they're going to recognize and be like, oh, it's the great wave by Hochassay. But oh, this is so beautiful and I feel so moved by this painting. Who's it by? I don't know, I'm gonna go learn more. So we wanted to get that balance right and I think we've achieved that. And also give a platform to artists that have maybe not [00:09:53:13 - 00:09:55:03] Rosie had such a big platform. [00:09:56:20 - 00:10:02:04] Rosie Especially some women artists to get them alongside their male counterparts. [00:10:04:05 - 00:10:05:15] Rosie So that was great. [00:10:07:12 - 00:10:07:20] Steve Excellent. [00:10:09:04 - 00:10:17:02] Steve One of the areas that I'm really fascinated by is this kind of taking a piece of like 2D art that's on a wall, [00:10:18:12 - 00:10:24:05] Steve that's quite flat. Obviously it has depth, it has characteristics the way it's being created. [00:10:25:14 - 00:10:30:00] Steve But then you're transferring it now into an immersive space, into this amazing space. [00:10:32:04 - 00:10:54:12] Steve And I had this reflection actually around, how do you not lose the essence of the painting into a space like this? I'm really interested to learn more about that process and what is the container? And actually as part of the process, did you maybe tip over the container sometimes and have to pull it back in or rein it back in or did it just naturally fit? [00:10:55:17 - 00:10:56:05] Steve How did it work? [00:10:56:05 - 00:11:07:15] Rosie Yeah, so I mean, the initial kind of curation of the four rooms, we then had to do some testing obviously because as you say, taking a two dimensional painting put it into a 3D space. [00:11:08:20 - 00:11:12:03] Rosie Suddenly you've got four walls and some cases six surfaces. [00:11:13:05 - 00:11:34:12] Rosie That technically is hard and sometimes it just doesn't hit the mark. And I think we made a call that if you're losing something from the artwork by trying to make it 3D, then we're not gonna do it. It either needs to be impactful and sort of emotionally resonant or if it's not, we're not gonna put it in. [00:11:35:15 - 00:11:42:09] Rosie So that was a process of just testing and seeing what worked and what didn't. [00:11:43:23 - 00:12:09:04] Rosie But I think from sort of the treatment of the art, there was this really at the heart of everything is we're gonna honor the art every step of the way. So when we're using the technology, A, we're choosing technology that's gonna naturally enhance the art. So we've got four themed galleries. The tech that we have in each of the galleries is designed to make sure that you're getting the most out of that art. [00:12:11:00 - 00:12:17:05] Rosie But there was a kind of deep respect for the skill of the artist and color and composition. [00:12:18:12 - 00:12:30:02] Rosie And actually sometimes that in itself informed the technology that we used. So for one of the galleries for color and motion, we have its impressionist, post-impressionist and the impressionist artists. [00:12:31:12 - 00:12:36:17] Rosie And the impressionism, otherwise known as pointillism, so the dots. [00:12:38:14 - 00:12:50:04] Rosie We decided that actually, is there something we can do with the technology that's actually celebrating the actual mark making of the artist, so the brushstrokes of themselves? [00:12:51:14 - 00:12:56:02] Rosie The use of color and the way they've composed these pieces of these tiny little dots. [00:12:57:18 - 00:13:29:24] Rosie Is there a way that technology can show that, but also be something that's really joyful and beautiful and fun? And we basically cut out every single brush stroke in each painting, popped it onto the floor into like a painter's palette. So they're in their sort of different color groups. And then as you run through these dots, they fly up on the wall and they find their place in the painting. And then it resolves in front of you. [00:13:31:01 - 00:14:26:15] Rosie And so I think, A, that's a really fun and sort of magical way to experience the art, but you also get such a sort of deep respect for the skill and the technique that goes into it. And also all the colors that go into it. Even, you know, I chose the art and I saw when we were testing the painter's palette on the floor with all these little dots. And I was like, I don't know which painting this is, because it was really surprising to me, which colors, it's like, there's no orange in that. And then you see it come to life, you're like, oh my God, there is so much orange in that. How amazing that the artist has done all that. So that was a way in which the technology and the art completely intertwined. And I think it gives people not only a very sort of magical experience, and they almost become like a digital artist with their body. It gets them moving. [00:14:28:11 - 00:14:36:14] Rosie But it also just showcases the skill of the artist. And so in that way, we are honoring the artist. [00:14:38:07 - 00:14:43:01] Steve Deconstructing the pieces. Deconstructing, yeah. What fun. It was fun. [00:14:43:01 - 00:14:58:13] Steve in terms of the creative process, like any good creative is also really depends on the team and partners. Yes. How has that evolved over time since the beginning, and how have you evolved your partnerships and the evolution? [00:14:58:13 - 00:15:15:24] Rosie Yeah, so when it comes to the incredible animators that bring these artists to life, we've got an insane partnership with CineSight, who are Hollywood Special Effects Studio, and they bring just the most incredible expertise [00:15:17:04 - 00:15:34:07] Rosie to taking these artworks and bringing them to life. So we've been able to just elevate some of our sort of original ideas and they've just taken it into a whole new level. So we're super lucky to be partnered with them [00:15:35:13 - 00:15:38:10] Rosie and hopefully be developing new content in the future. [00:15:38:10 - 00:15:45:03] Steve Yeah, and how has this affected the development of the space as well, just in terms of the investment and when it was designed? [00:15:45:03 - 00:15:51:00] Rosie Yeah, so this is actually an old cinema, which was then developed. [00:15:52:12 - 00:15:55:18] Rosie And I think what sets us apart [00:15:56:20 - 00:16:25:07] Rosie for maybe other temporary immersive spaces is we are permanent and so much time and care and investment went into all the small details. So everything has been designed for the visitor experience and that's really been thought through every step of the way. And so I think people come here and are sort of blown away by not only the content but just the space in general. [00:16:26:22 - 00:16:31:01] Rosie And leaves them having had a great time, hopefully. [00:16:32:08 - 00:16:40:12] Steve Just take us to a moment with the team when you first saw it in action, when you actually all came together into the space. What was the feeling amongst the team? [00:16:40:12 - 00:17:02:19] Rosie Awesome, yeah, yeah, yeah. That it worked and we just sort of danced in the space. It was great. I think it's just also for me, just a reminder that art can be really playful and doesn't have to be always academic or serious. It can just be something that's really joyful. [00:17:04:14 - 00:17:15:00] Rosie Yeah, it was a great time when the team was in there and we were just kind of dancing around and testing it all out. But being like, this is so cool and magical and beautiful. It's really beautiful. [00:17:15:00 - 00:17:16:09] Steve Yeah, amazing. [00:17:17:20 - 00:17:26:24] Steve Just in terms of the space itself, to walk us through just for the audience, to walk us through if we went from the foyer into the different spaces, just talk us through those. [00:17:26:24 - 00:17:32:02] Rosie So go into the lobby and then we have the creative corridor. [00:17:33:17 - 00:18:08:14] Rosie And that's all been very specifically designed as well. So your experience as a visitor starts from the moment you enter. And that's all been thought through by the creative director. So you enter the space, go through his creative corridor where the lights are kind of becoming down. There's a bit of color, but your kind of senses are being kind of dimmed and just like brought down. Then go down the escalators where we've got some screens and mirrors and it's like full of color. And you're like, wow, this is so cool. It looks incredible. And then into the space, we have a central crossing gallery. [00:18:09:24 - 00:18:16:07] Rosie And that again is very low lit and very dark. And we've got this beautiful kind of star lights and the ceiling. [00:18:17:10 - 00:18:33:06] Rosie And that again was very intentional just to kind of bring everyone's senses down before they actually enter the space. So that when you go into a gallery, you get that impact because you've become for a very kind of dark quiet space into like, whoa. [00:18:34:20 - 00:18:42:11] Rosie So that's all been thought through. And then we've got four different galleries with four different themes. We've also got cafe and our gift shop as well. [00:18:43:11 - 00:18:46:23] Steve Excellent. And tell us about the different themes in those four, across those four galleries. [00:18:46:23 - 00:18:49:11] Rosie So we've got Beyond Reality, [00:18:50:12 - 00:18:57:17] Rosie which celebrates artists that have explored fantastical worlds, the surreal, the subconscious and dreams. [00:18:58:20 - 00:19:40:16] Rosie And I described that room as almost like Alice in Wonderland falling down the rabbit hole. We have this sort of mirror mode that reflects and refracts and things. So everything that is already quite surreal, becomes even more surreal because it's sort of reflected and refracted. You're like, whoa, this is so cool. Then we've got Color In Motion, which is the one I talked about, the interactive room, which celebrates post-impressionist, impressionist and neo-impressionist. Then we've got the Art of Abstraction, which celebrates the pioneers of abstract art. And that room is a little bit different because we actually, instead of projecting out onto the walls, we project in. [00:19:41:24 - 00:19:59:19] Rosie So we've created a sort of maze-like structure with these translucent scrims, which when the abstract art is then projected onto it, it then bleeds through these scrims and abstracts again. So we're abstracting abstract art. [00:20:01:02 - 00:20:19:12] Rosie But that's also a very sort of almost interactive experience because as it bleeds through, it bleeds onto me. So you're kind of becoming part of the art. And that's really beautiful actually. But that's obviously quite challenging because suddenly you haven't got four walls, you've got 17. [00:20:20:22 - 00:20:34:02] Rosie So technically that was a trick you wanted to get right. But I think what we've done in that room is outstanding. I think it is really impactful. And I think we have really honored [00:20:35:12 - 00:21:07:07] Rosie the story of the artist and their sort of vision. And then the biggest gallery is called The World Around Us, which celebrates artists that have captured the beauty of our world in paint throughout the centuries. So we have everything from a fresco from two dozen years ago from Pompeii, from the Villa of Mysteries, all the way up until the 1900s. So there's real breadth in that room. And that is six-sided projection. So you're literally in the artwork, which is so-called. [00:21:07:07 - 00:21:08:08] Steve Very dramatic. [00:21:08:08 - 00:21:10:01] Rosie Very dramatic, yes. [00:21:10:01 - 00:21:12:20] Steve you mentioned this at the beginning actually around accessibility. [00:21:13:23 - 00:21:23:17] Steve And it's something which I noticed when exploring the space myself. You go from this kind of dramatic room to then one of such playful and joy. And then [00:21:23:17 - 00:21:36:11] Steve room where actually I sat down in a corner and just observed. And it was a really interesting way of placing these kind of benches around the room actually, where you could just sit and relax and engage with or watch the art. [00:21:38:04 - 00:21:43:12] Steve But I just wanted to talk about accessibility because it's something which I know is close to the heart here within the business. [00:21:44:14 - 00:21:49:08] Steve How are you thinking about accessibility? What does it mean in actually the context of Framers as well? [00:21:49:08 - 00:22:05:07] Rosie Yeah, so obviously you've got physical accessibility, which we put into all the designs. But even kind of deeper than that, when we were looking at the four galleries and what we were going to call them in terms of the themes, [00:22:06:14 - 00:22:33:13] Rosie we really decided to kind of strip away that academia. So we've not called a room, Ceridism, we haven't called it Post-Impressionism. We've called it Beyond Reality and Color Emotion. So automatically there is that accessibility there. We're not putting that kind of academic block in. So anyone could walk into the room, everyone knows what color emotion means. And what does that mean to them? [00:22:34:15 - 00:22:36:02] Rosie It's just sort of an experience. [00:22:37:05 - 00:23:00:04] Rosie So from that sense, we also decided against doing sort of huge boards full of art history information, art historical information. And that was a purposeful choice because I think we want people just to go in and feel and not to be necessarily informed by the art history, but actually to go in, experience it, [00:23:01:15 - 00:23:03:14] Rosie have a feeling, feel an emotion, [00:23:04:22 - 00:23:22:11] Rosie and then they can come out and read up more about it. So we've got QR codes, which then takes them to a website which they can read more about the individual artwork. And then we've got our official guide where they can read more about it. But it's more about feeling than the academia. [00:23:23:19 - 00:23:34:05] Rosie And I think that works well, because it means we've got everyone from toddlers to grannies and everyone in between, and they can all come together and have the same joyful experience. [00:23:35:14 - 00:23:36:15] Steve A lot of intentionality. [00:23:36:15 - 00:23:37:03] Rosie Yes. [00:23:37:03 - 00:23:41:17] Steve Yes. Yeah. It's a word that's used a lot on this podcast. It really is. [00:23:42:20 - 00:23:54:13] Steve I love the language actually. I think language is so important. I love the way you use these different names for the rooms in order just to give that accessibility. It's very cool. [00:23:54:13 - 00:24:11:20] Rosie But aside from that, we have artworks that people might not be able to travel to and see that all over the world. And what's really great is that they are able to sit side by side with each other, which would never really happen in a physical space. [00:24:11:20 - 00:24:19:24] Steve Framus as a business, as a destination in London, which it very much is, if you just look at the TripAdvisor reviews, [00:24:21:02 - 00:24:50:10] Steve we did take a look and it was just outstanding all the way through. We did spot something else in there actually, which I thought was really interesting, like on a fairly common thing, was perception versus reality. And it was quite interesting. I think people had a perception of coming in, but the reality was so much higher. So there was a really interesting observation on that. So I think just going back to the way that intentionality of when people coming into the space, maybe it's dulled down, they step into this space of awe. [00:24:52:06 - 00:24:56:08] Steve How do you read that? Just hearing that just in terms of customer feedback? [00:24:56:08 - 00:25:07:23] Rosie I mean, great. I think we always want to exceed expectations. I mean, it's one thing to see anything online and then to actually experience it in reality, [00:25:08:24 - 00:25:12:23] Rosie but I'm glad that we're surpassing expectations. That's fantastic. [00:25:12:23 - 00:25:15:04] Steve Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you are. [00:25:16:18 - 00:25:27:11] Steve So I just wanted to ask as well around the evolution of this form, because it's fascinating time in London is like, the hotbed of immersive experience right now. It's huge. [00:25:27:11 - 00:25:27:24] Rosie It's interesting it seems. [00:25:27:24 - 00:25:35:07] Steve I mean, also thanks to the mayor of London, of course, by placing it very much as a key pillar in the future growth of London. [00:25:37:13 - 00:25:48:24] Steve Where do you kind of, where's Frameless standing in this right now? I mean, obviously very unique period in time, both economically and I think London as a kind of bit of a mecca for this kind of form. [00:25:50:08 - 00:25:56:24] Steve Yeah, what's the kind of, what's this kind of shift for immersive, meaningful frameless in terms of potential and opportunities? [00:25:56:24 - 00:26:12:05] Rosie Well, I think, I mean, the amazing thing about immersive and where it's sort of the journey that it's been on is technology is improving all the time. So we can do more and more things. So that kind of keeps us evolving. [00:26:13:20 - 00:26:17:06] Rosie And obviously different experiences are popping up all the time. [00:26:18:14 - 00:26:23:20] Rosie So that's really exciting for the future, I think, because we've obviously got an incredible space, [00:26:25:01 - 00:26:35:02] Rosie incredible technology, and the more that evolves, the more possibilities evolve. So that's exciting for the future, I mean, for everyone, but especially for us. [00:26:36:04 - 00:26:54:15] Rosie And it's becoming, I think, immersive even five years ago, was kind of like a novelty thing, and there were a few and people went, but it wasn't sort of in the mainstream. I think now it's becoming more so. [00:26:55:17 - 00:27:04:22] Rosie And you're seeing even, you know, like museums and galleries taking sort of aspects of it to bring it to the museums to engage the younger audience. [00:27:06:12 - 00:27:10:18] Rosie So that's, it's kind of interesting how that's going to progress. [00:27:10:18 - 00:27:15:02] Steve Yeah, I agree, especially with, through a technology lens, for sure. [00:27:16:03 - 00:27:35:10] Steve How does Frameless also view itself, kind of, from a competitive landscape? And because not from a ultra-competitive, but more as a complement to the existing art spaces that are out there as well. How do you see, kind of, Frameless fitting into that ecosystem of that space? [00:27:35:10 - 00:27:49:03] Rosie Yeah, I get asked this all the time. And I think we've never set, like we never want to be a replacement for a museum or gallery. They're incredible spaces. It's so valuable to see artwork in real life. [00:27:50:04 - 00:28:08:07] Rosie I think what we have always said that we offered is a kind of entry point for someone. Like a lot of people don't feel necessarily comfortable going to a museum or gallery, or they've just never been. It's not something that their family went to or they didn't get to go to school trips. [00:28:09:16 - 00:28:19:03] Rosie This is a place where they can start that journey into art history. They might come just because it's, for want of a better word, like a cool experience. [00:28:21:05 - 00:28:27:16] Rosie But then they come and they are really inspired, and hopefully we inspire them to go and learn more afterwards. [00:28:30:05 - 00:28:33:20] Rosie So we don't see ourselves as a competitor, but it's more a complement to, [00:28:35:06 - 00:28:44:09] Rosie for people who are kind of entering the art space for the first time, getting inspired, and then hopefully going on learning more. [00:28:45:18 - 00:28:45:23] Rosie Yeah. [00:28:45:23 - 00:28:49:24] Steve Tell us a little also the element around feeling, [00:28:51:01 - 00:28:51:17] Steve because feeling, [00:28:53:09 - 00:29:01:04] Steve creating a space like this that generates awe and this really intense feeling for people, which obviously anchors in very strongly into memory. [00:29:02:18 - 00:29:06:05] Steve How has Framers thought about that and how they approach that? [00:29:07:08 - 00:29:10:11] Rosie Yeah, so every single piece of artwork [00:29:12:17 - 00:29:20:12] Rosie is kind of, I mean, we start from the art, but the art gives a feeling because you have the story behind it or the intention of the artist. [00:29:21:21 - 00:29:34:17] Rosie And so certainly when we're using the technology to bring it to life, we're trying to get that feeling to come out of it. But also a massive part of that is the music and the audio. [00:29:36:18 - 00:29:48:23] Rosie We say that the experience is really 50% visual, but also 50% audio. It's the music that really brings out that emotion in people. [00:29:50:02 - 00:29:55:18] Rosie And we worked with composers to compose specifically for the animated pieces. [00:29:56:23 - 00:30:16:01] Rosie And what was really sort of amazing for me is that the composers were really interested in the art history behind it. So I got to sit down with them and explain, you know, this is the inspiration behind it, especially with some artists in the art of abstraction room, [00:30:17:14 - 00:31:16:07] Rosie because so many of those artists were directly inspired by music. So an artist like Kandinsky, who was a synesthet, when he heard music, he saw color and he loved listening to opera and he would paint what he saw. So going into that kind of detail, working with the composer to say that, you know, when he heard this sound, it was yellow. And that's so the composition when you see yellow, there's that sound. And that's, you know, most of the audience won't know that. But we're kind of bringing that all to life. Like the actual artwork is like singing almost. It's really, really amazing. So I feel very grateful that they were interested and I was allowed to kind of work with them that deeply on it, because I think what we've landed on is something that is really emotionally connected to the piece itself. And whether the audience realize it or not, I think it has an impact on their experience. So yeah. [00:31:16:07 - 00:31:29:09] Steve Why is that not daunting? To take a piece, to take a famous piece of art, turn it into an immersive and then create music that also brings it to life and complements and lifts it as well. [00:31:29:09 - 00:31:29:23] Rosie Yeah. [00:31:29:23 - 00:31:32:02] Steve It's quite a take on. [00:31:32:02 - 00:31:48:17] Rosie It is. But I think you can only go on your own feeling of it and whether it's impactful. And thankfully everyone else has felt that it's amazing. [00:31:50:12 - 00:31:56:10] Rosie But yeah, it's, you know, there's many interpretations of art that's why it's so amazing. Everyone feels something different. [00:31:57:12 - 00:31:58:19] Rosie Everyone sees something different. [00:32:00:20 - 00:32:09:12] Rosie But I think what we've done seems to have hit home with lots of visitors. So hopefully we've done a good job. [00:32:09:12 - 00:32:10:17] Steve Yeah, absolutely. [00:32:12:04 - 00:32:25:17] Steve And can I just explore as well, like your personal shift in this journey. How have you changed as a person, as an individual who's passionate about art? [00:32:25:17 - 00:32:33:12] Rosie How has it-- Yeah. I mean, I've always been passionate about accessibility. It's been really wonderful to see that in action. [00:32:35:02 - 00:32:38:20] Rosie But I'd never worked with this kind of technology before. [00:32:39:22 - 00:32:43:04] Rosie So I think now I'm more open, [00:32:44:04 - 00:32:52:18] Rosie I mean, not that I wasn't open before, but I'm even more open to the marriage of technology and art. I think it has incredible value. [00:32:54:04 - 00:33:02:11] Rosie And I think spaces like Frameless are really important for, especially when I see children [00:33:03:16 - 00:33:08:12] Rosie coming in and having such a magical experience and arts fun. [00:33:10:00 - 00:33:25:04] Rosie I remember being dragged around museums and galleries when I was younger. And obviously, like, if you're a kid, they're all the wrong height, you can't really see. And my parents would spend like 45 minutes looking at a painting, and I'd be like, "Oh, Mom, so bored." [00:33:26:07 - 00:33:51:12] Rosie Whereas, you see, like, I brought my nephew, and he's swimming, and he's laughing and playing. And I think that as a really early experience of art that's really fun, that can only go on to boost their interest in the future. And maybe if they want to become an artist or create, it kind of starts that journey of us in a really positive way. [00:33:52:15 - 00:33:59:15] Rosie And something that's definitely for them. So that's been a really beautiful part of the journey for me. [00:33:59:15 - 00:34:00:14] Steve Yeah, [00:34:01:21 - 00:34:11:06] Steve you almost had to drag me out of that interactive room. It's quite interesting seeing people's faces. It's just, everyone smiles in that room. It's incredible fun. [00:34:11:06 - 00:34:17:06] Rosie So I tell people, and I take people into that room, I want you to find your inner child. [00:34:18:12 - 00:34:24:20] Rosie Because as adults, we're kind of conditioned to behave in, which is good, [00:34:25:20 - 00:34:49:16] Rosie in society, but also in galleries. So there's not a natural instinct that I see in adults when they go in that room to start moving around the space. Kids straight away, they're so happy. On the floor, they're dancing. And you can see adults kind of be a bit more cautious at first. And then as soon as one person does it, they're all up and just smiling and being like, "This is so fun." [00:34:51:03 - 00:35:01:11] Rosie So that's been really fun to see people kind of drop that kind of adult, I suppose, and find that inner child. [00:35:02:13 - 00:35:04:04] Steve Which one's been your favorite piece of art? [00:35:05:12 - 00:35:06:13] Steve Have you had to choose? [00:35:09:11 - 00:35:15:20] Rosie It's really hard. I think probably [00:35:17:22 - 00:35:19:08] Rosie the Rembrandt. [00:35:21:10 - 00:35:27:24] Rosie I think it from a kind of personal perspective or sort of more broadly, [00:35:29:10 - 00:35:41:06] Rosie that painting, you can't see it anymore because it was stolen in 1990 and they've never found it. So to bring it here and to have people experience it, [00:35:42:12 - 00:35:44:21] Rosie it's also the only known seascape that Rembrandt ever did. [00:35:46:11 - 00:35:48:10] Rosie And it's so beautiful. [00:35:49:18 - 00:36:03:08] Rosie The light and shade, it has this kind of really dramatic all that makes people just immediately stop. And I think with that piece in particular, it's one of our most popular pieces. [00:36:04:13 - 00:36:08:17] Rosie It's super dramatic and incredible to be in the room for. [00:36:09:19 - 00:36:16:17] Rosie But we've also, I think, really managed to maintain the utter beauty in it, [00:36:17:20 - 00:36:23:07] Rosie and also honored what Rembrandt did with this brushwork. [00:36:24:16 - 00:36:26:12] Rosie So I'm really proud of that one. [00:36:26:12 - 00:36:29:18] Steve Yeah, it is very dramatic. It is very dramatic. [00:36:29:18 - 00:36:30:18] (Laughing) [00:36:30:18 - 00:36:32:03] Steve It's beautiful. [00:36:34:05 - 00:36:44:11] Steve Just in terms of framers as a business as well, because I'm really fascinated on just the commerciality. Obviously you're in an amazing space in Marble Arch. [00:36:46:19 - 00:36:57:05] Steve Where else as a business, as framers, both in terms of public facing, but also business to business opportunities, where else have you explored or have you been working with? [00:36:57:05 - 00:37:02:05] Rosie Well, you're right. We are a fantastic space in the center of London. [00:37:03:14 - 00:37:07:15] Rosie And we've had enormous success with our event side of things. [00:37:08:24 - 00:37:12:17] Rosie We've obviously got four galleries. We're on a fifth gallery called Blank Canvas. [00:37:14:12 - 00:37:19:05] Rosie And we have a lot of companies and corporates who come and do events here in the evenings. [00:37:20:06 - 00:37:29:00] Rosie And what is also incredible about the space is obviously we can change them. We have our own content, but we can also develop bespoke content for brands, [00:37:30:01 - 00:37:48:23] Rosie which for them, it's one thing to do an event in a space where they've got their products or whatever it is. But to actually be able to put their guests in a space is incredible. So that's been a really fun side of the business. [00:37:50:05 - 00:38:09:07] Rosie And we've just got so much flexibility with the space. They can take over the whole space for like two day long takeovers, or individual galleries. And that's been really, really exciting to actually be able to like create new bespoke content for the rooms. [00:38:10:19 - 00:38:12:09] Rosie So that's been an enormous success. [00:38:13:13 - 00:38:14:07] Rosie And yeah, [00:38:14:07 - 00:38:19:14] Steve so fun. I think you said a lot about the technology, the space and applying it in different contexts. [00:38:20:21 - 00:38:34:07] Steve Clearly the focus was always with the art, but then of course, smart business, it needs to commercially be viable as well. So no, I think it's a great space, especially the main one, the main hall. I think we saw a little demo of that and it was, yeah. [00:38:35:12 - 00:38:48:07] Rosie Isn't it incredible though, when you see that, how different, well even different paintings and we have a content on, but different bespoke content would be created for these brands, how much it changes the space like that. [00:38:48:07 - 00:38:50:04] Steve Yeah, it's immediately. [00:38:50:04 - 00:38:53:14] Rosie You're in space, then you're in a desert and you're like, whoa. [00:38:53:14 - 00:38:56:13] Steve it was moving my senses all over the place. [00:38:56:13 - 00:38:58:04] Rosie I always think it's a little bit different. [00:38:58:04 - 00:39:00:15] Steve It's incredible, incredible. [00:39:00:15 - 00:39:04:03] Steve yeah, as we kind of closed this episode down, [00:39:05:19 - 00:39:13:20] Steve just share with us some of your overall reflections of your journey of being here at Frameless, both in terms of like, professionally, [00:39:14:20 - 00:39:18:13] Steve but also like, yeah, what's the kind of, how's it invokes some feeling within yourself? [00:39:18:13 - 00:39:24:19] Rosie Yeah, well, I mean, professionally, I think we're all super proud of what we've achieved. [00:39:26:07 - 00:39:36:16] Rosie I think we've brought something to London, which is incredible and will only continue to grow. [00:39:38:17 - 00:39:46:06] Rosie But also from a personal perspective, I, yeah, I'm extremely proud to have been involved. [00:39:48:07 - 00:39:51:11] Rosie I think it challenged me in a lot of ways. [00:39:53:15 - 00:39:59:00] Rosie And got me thinking differently about the sort of possibilities of art. [00:40:00:04 - 00:40:09:08] Rosie And I really feel that this is a space that is accessible to all. And that's what I'm most passionate about, [00:40:10:14 - 00:40:11:15] Rosie bringing art to the masses. [00:40:13:09 - 00:40:16:05] Rosie So from that aspect, super proud. [00:40:16:05 - 00:40:25:18] Steve Yeah. Well, I just want to say like, congratulations to you, the whole team. I think what Frameless has carved out and created is something absolutely very special. [00:40:26:24 - 00:40:40:11] Steve And I would definitely invite any, anyone listening to this podcast or watching, definitely come in, come and check it out. It's an amazing space. And I'm really, really excited to see what future content you're going to explore as well. Not just the ones that are here today. [00:40:40:11 - 00:40:43:21] (Music) [00:40:43:21 - 00:43:13:16] Steve Thanks very much. [00:46:06:19 - 00:46:10:23] (Upbeat Music) [00:56:51:03 - 00:56:53:18] (Dramatic Music) [00:56:53:18 - 00:57:21:21] (Eerie Music) [00:57:21:21 - 00:58:13:04] (Music Playing) [00:59:44:09 - 00:59:54:20] Speaker 13 I'll [01:00:01:02 - 01:01:02:15] (Music Playing) [01:01:02:15 - 01:01:30:08] Speaker 11 that's great [01:01:30:08 - 01:01:34:20] (Music) [01:01:34:20 - 01:01:36:08] Speaker 1 This one, like, you know, she might be using... [01:01:37:21 - 01:01:38:00] (Music) [01:01:38:00 - 01:01:40:03] Speaker 1 She was basically speaking to the spiritual [01:01:40:03 - 01:01:41:11] (Music) [01:01:41:11 - 01:01:43:24] Speaker 1 Female spiritual voice [01:02:28:04 - 01:02:29:23] (Muffled Talking) [01:02:29:23 - 01:02:30:18] Steve Oh, [01:02:32:00 - 01:02:33:03] Steve this is so iconic. [01:02:38:19 - 01:02:43:04] Rosie got around that with some like this, is that we did 36 views of Mount Beattie, [01:02:43:04 - 01:02:53:05] Rosie And not create it from our own like, like, mind you that you can work. So that's a really nice thing who likes his other amazing, I love the way he does it, he's cool, I love the way he does it. [01:02:53:05 - 01:02:59:03] Speaker 1 is Ruben, which I should have used, I think Ruben is [01:03:01:11 - 01:03:03:19] Speaker 1 We had to [01:03:03:19 - 01:03:07:08] Speaker 1 fill in a few gaps, we actually had, we did have another [01:03:07:08 - 01:03:09:07] Speaker 1 meeting. [01:03:10:09 - 01:03:10:14] Steve Oh, [01:03:10:14 - 01:03:15:07] Speaker 1 fruit, and on like a whale, it's just like... Yeah. [01:03:16:17 - 01:03:20:17] Speaker 1 That's really, yeah, that's hard not to Disney buy it in a way. And it makes it much. [01:03:20:17 - 01:03:24:14] Speaker 1 And then we've got women while flowers are here, which is like what? [01:03:25:15 - 01:03:30:11] Speaker 1 Which is quite, well I can say, way more crazy than I've ever thought. [01:03:30:11 - 01:03:34:01] Speaker 1 so it's an old piece. [01:03:34:01 - 01:03:36:14] Speaker 16 Yeah. And this is it. Oh yeah. [01:03:36:14 - 01:03:38:06] Speaker 1 But it closes in real life. [01:03:38:06 - 01:03:39:16] Speaker 16 Oh really? [01:03:39:16 - 01:03:44:19] Speaker 1 Yeah. So it's a motherboard and everything's open. I think we've got it in the front. [01:03:44:19 - 01:03:46:04] Speaker 16 Oh here we go. [01:03:46:04 - 01:03:46:14] Speaker 1 And it [01:03:46:14 - 01:03:50:09] Speaker 1 had to be careful with this one, I'm taking care of it. Because the animators... [01:03:51:22 - 01:03:56:10] Speaker 1 It's obviously such iconic as well, but they wanted to do some kind of crazy stuff in there. [01:03:57:18 - 01:04:08:07] Speaker 1 recognize that if you start changing the position and stuff, this is not gonna work. So, we actually feel like better to it. It's good. Ah, really nice. [01:04:08:07 - 01:04:11:18] Speaker 1 eyelashes. It's meant to be a self-portrait of dying. [01:04:14:16 - 01:04:15:17] Speaker 1 My friend [01:04:15:17 - 01:04:22:03] Speaker 16 that process of taking it to this, and all the different steps and the iterations and... Yeah. Do you know what I [01:04:22:03 - 01:04:23:16] Speaker 1 into the rooms you can... [01:04:25:00 - 01:04:28:20] Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [01:04:32:00 - 01:04:32:21] Speaker 16 Oh, so lovely. [01:04:32:21 - 01:05:11:24] (Music) [01:39:12:00 - 01:39:30:16] Rosie But alongside all of that is the incredible Learning Access Program that we've developed here. So everything from VSL tours, audio described tours. We also have these amazing chilled sessions for children who have sensory impairments, where we lower the audio and the lighting a bit, [01:39:31:16 - 01:39:36:05] Rosie and special sensory sessions with practitioners as well. [01:39:37:07 - 01:39:57:08] Rosie So all of that has been really thought through and we've designed this program to be able to give as many people access to the space. And there's a really beautiful story that I sadly wasn't here for, but there was a boy who came to one of our chilled sessions with his carer and he was voluntarily viewed. [01:39:58:16 - 01:40:04:01] Rosie And he spoke for the first time in Famous and said, "I love it." [01:40:04:01 - 01:40:05:14] Steve Oh, wow. [01:40:05:14 - 01:40:09:21] Rosie Really special. So it just shows you the impact it can have. [01:40:11:04 - 01:40:17:22] Rosie And it's for reasons like that that we wanted to develop and we will keep on doing all our learning access programs. [01:40:19:00 - 01:40:19:11] Steve That's beautiful. [01:40:21:02 - 01:40:28:13] Steve It's the power of art and this form combined. That's an amazing story. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Amazing. [01:40:28:13 - 01:40:30:02] Rosie and the lighting a bit, [01:40:31:02 - 01:40:35:16] Rosie and special sensory sessions with practitioners as well. [01:40:36:18 - 01:40:56:19] Rosie So all of that has been really thought through and we've designed this program to be able to give as many people access to the space. And there's a really beautiful story that I sadly wasn't here for, but there was a boy who came to one of our chilled sessions with his carer and he was voluntarily viewed. [01:40:58:02 - 01:41:03:12] Rosie And he spoke for the first time in Famous and said, "I love it." [01:41:03:12 - 01:41:05:00] Steve Oh, wow. [01:41:05:00 - 01:41:09:07] Rosie Really special. So it just shows you the impact it can have. [01:41:10:15 - 01:41:17:08] Rosie And it's for reasons like that that we wanted to develop and we will keep on doing all our learning access programs. [01:41:18:11 - 01:41:18:22] Steve That's beautiful. [01:41:20:13 - 01:41:27:24] Steve It's the power of art and this form combined. That's an amazing story. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Amazing. [01:43:00:22 - 01:43:06:03] Speaker 1 is Ruben, which I should have used, I think Ruben is [01:43:31:04 - 01:43:36:14] Rosie got around that with some like this, is that we did 36 views of Mount Beattie, [01:43:54:21 - 01:43:57:04] Speaker 1 We had to [01:44:01:15 - 01:44:02:17] Speaker 1 meeting. [01:44:03:19 - 01:44:03:24] Steve Oh, [01:56:13:11 - 01:56:23:05] Rosie And not create it from our own like, like, mind you that you can work. So that's a really nice thing who likes his other amazing, I love the way he does it, he's cool, I love the way he does it. [01:56:23:05 - 01:56:29:03] Speaker 1 is Ruben, which I should have used, I think Ruben is [01:56:31:11 - 01:56:33:19] Speaker 1 We had to [01:56:33:19 - 01:56:37:08] Speaker 1 fill in a few gaps, we actually had, we did have another [01:56:37:08 - 01:56:39:07] Speaker 1 meeting. [01:56:40:09 - 01:56:40:14] Steve Oh, [02:03:05:21 - 02:03:23:04] Steve So hi, I'm Steve Usher and welcome to the Experience Designers. Your front row seat to the world of experiences. And today we have an absolute treat for you. Today we are in one of the top immersive experiences in London. Welcome to Frameless. [02:03:35:10 - 02:04:00:03] Steve Hi, I'm Steve. Welcome to the Experience Designers podcast. Your front row seat to the world of experiences. And today we have a very special treat for you as we are standing at Frameless, one of London's best immersive experiences. So come on in and let's get behind the scenes of what makes Frameless immersive, experiential and above all memorable. [02:06:44:14 - 02:06:47:17] Speaker 8 all cameras are rolling and we're good to go. Thank you. [02:06:47:17 - 02:06:48:12] Steve Amazing. You ready? [02:06:49:13 - 02:06:50:11] Steve I can do this. Right. [02:06:51:12 - 02:06:54:00] Steve I need to get a clacker as well. I've got a clacker. Okay. [02:06:56:08 - 02:06:56:21] Speaker 6 Okay. [02:07:44:00 - 02:07:45:15] Steve cameras are rolling and we're doing good. [02:07:45:15 - 02:07:47:01] Rosie Amazing. Thank you. [02:07:47:01 - 02:07:47:23] Steve You ready? [02:07:47:23 - 02:07:49:14] Rosie Let's do this. [02:07:49:14 - 02:07:53:12] Steve All right. I need to get a clacker as well, I haven't got a clacker. Okay. [02:07:56:00 - 02:07:56:06] Steve Okay. [02:09:53:09 - 02:09:58:04] Rosie Good. Yeah, I'm brilliant. Is that all right? Yeah, very good. [02:09:58:04 - 02:10:00:13] Steve I so wanted to ask about the technology so badly. [02:10:00:13 - 02:10:08:24] Speaker 5 There's another thing you didn't include. I don't know if you do want to go, the only thing that I think is quite unique to Frameless, I don't think you've covered a sinny side. [02:10:08:24 - 02:10:10:08] Rosie Oh yeah, I can talk about that. [02:10:10:08 - 02:10:16:19] Speaker 5 And I can't ship with them. I think that's something that's evolved as the business has grown and something that's been introduced since we've opened. [02:10:16:19 - 02:10:17:04] Rosie Yeah, yeah. [02:10:17:04 - 02:10:20:18] Speaker 5 It will continue to evolve in terms of how we bring in new artworks. [02:10:20:18 - 02:10:21:12] Rosie Yeah, okay. [02:10:21:12 - 02:10:22:02] Rosie Let's do that. [02:10:22:02 - 02:10:22:15] Speaker 5 That's interesting. [02:10:22:15 - 02:10:24:20] Rosie Yeah, let's do that. [02:10:24:20 - 02:10:27:19] Steve Where could we fit that? Hang on, we'll fit it in somewhere. [02:10:27:19 - 02:10:31:10] Speaker 5 I think it's when you were talking about the crafting of it and the creative process. [02:10:31:10 - 02:10:31:16] Rosie Yes. [02:10:31:16 - 02:10:32:17] Speaker 5 But I think it's like we, [02:10:33:23 - 02:10:41:10] Speaker 5 things have been done one way, but then as we've evolved, we've brought in new partners and we've made the experience even better for a fresh two galleries. Yeah. [02:10:41:10 - 02:10:43:02] Steve I think we can talk about that. Okay, I've got something on that. [02:10:43:02 - 02:11:01:05] Speaker 5 And that probably shows how we're evolving at the other thing, but it's maybe a bit, we're not relevant, but talking about, because we are actually rated number one art gallery in London by TripAdvisor, which I think is really interesting that we've now surpassed all the traditional art galleries, the number one art gallery that we've come to fit there. [02:11:01:05 - 02:11:04:19] Rosie Yeah, I find that difficult, because for me, we're not. [02:11:04:19 - 02:11:07:00] (Laughing) [02:11:07:00 - 02:11:09:12] Rosie So we're asking personally, [02:11:10:17 - 02:11:11:09] Rosie I can't. [02:11:11:09 - 02:12:06:02] Speaker 5 But it's a fact, but it's fact. It's like, it's interesting. In terms of what we bring to London, there's all these immersive experiences cropping up and a lot of them are linked to IPs and they've got a bit of media appeal, whereas framers have that timeless art thing at how we're, as well as being an immersive experience. We, it's important to us that we're an institution within the London, you know, state of the cultural landscape of London. And I think the other thing, the only other thing I'd say you didn't talk about is the, like this building and what went in, because I think that's the differentiator and I think that's why people are, it's better than they expected, is the quality and the investment that's gone into the creation, because a lot of the experiences you walk in, the wall's all too novel, and they come down, whereas this is like, we don't want to talk about how much this has been, but obviously it's converted from a cinema into like, what we're doing today. [02:12:06:02 - 02:12:07:02] Rosie Okay. [02:12:07:02 - 02:12:08:23] Speaker 5 So I just think those things might be worth. [02:12:08:23 - 02:12:26:07] Rosie Bring it in. Me? Yeah. So, yeah, I was thinking if you don't be comfortable saying number one on faith advice-- No, you're gonna ask about it, and I can say, yeah, it's really interesting, because we're not specifically using more artists, we've got multiple artists. Yes, I will. [02:12:27:08 - 02:12:27:12] Rosie But, [02:12:29:10 - 02:12:35:00] Rosie yeah, personally I can't be like, yeah, great, I think we are better than the National Gallery. [02:12:35:00 - 02:12:40:16] Speaker 5 I think when you're talking about TripAdvisor, it's just quite an interesting point, actually, like the position now, Frayner. Yeah. [02:12:42:04 - 02:12:43:16] Steve I can do a take on that, just, [02:12:44:16 - 02:12:46:22] Steve I can do that. Let's start with the, [02:12:48:10 - 02:12:51:02] Steve which was the first one? Sorry, I had something, the creative process. [02:12:51:02 - 02:12:51:18] Rosie Yeah, yeah. [02:12:51:18 - 02:12:53:20] Steve Yeah, it's a partnership. I'll start with that one. [02:12:53:20 - 02:12:55:00] Rosie Yeah, yeah. [02:12:55:00 - 02:12:55:16] Steve Okay. [02:12:55:16 - 02:12:57:10] Rosie You won't talk about Luke Holmes. [02:12:57:10 - 02:12:58:21] Speaker 5 About what? [02:12:58:21 - 02:12:59:08] Rosie Luke Holmes. [02:12:59:08 - 02:13:03:12] Speaker 5 No, just talk about CineSight. I think just saying we've got, no, your partnership with CineSight. [02:13:03:12 - 02:13:04:06] Rosie Yeah, I'll just do that. [02:13:04:06 - 02:13:10:03] Speaker 5 And then the creative team I just wanted to say-- and work on them to be able to introduce the visual affairs and the experience and how that's-- [02:13:12:01 - 02:13:12:04] Speaker 5 Great. [02:13:14:18 - 02:13:16:08] Steve I've got it, I've got it, I've got the hook. [02:13:16:08 - 02:13:19:11] Rosie I'm just laughing, because I'm like, okay, right, I need to face myself. [02:13:20:14 - 02:13:25:10] Steve Trying to look at least similar to where we were about half an hour ago. Okay, I can't now, you set me off. [02:13:25:10 - 02:13:25:20] Rosie Sorry. [02:13:25:20 - 02:13:27:14] Steve Okay, it's all right. Okay. [02:13:28:24 - 02:13:29:06] Steve Sorry. [02:13:30:17 - 02:13:35:06] Steve It's like-- Do you not get the giggles, man? It's like out of the blue. I'm gonna look you right there and start laughing. Okay, right. [02:13:36:14 - 02:13:38:00] Steve Okay, so, [02:13:38:00 - 02:13:40:02] Speaker 5 like the position now, Frayner. Yeah. [02:13:41:15 - 02:13:43:02] Steve I can do a take on that, just, [02:13:44:02 - 02:13:46:08] Steve I can do that. Let's start with the, [02:13:47:21 - 02:13:50:13] Steve which was the first one? Sorry, I had something, the creative process. [02:13:50:13 - 02:13:51:04] Rosie Yeah, yeah. [02:13:51:04 - 02:13:53:06] Steve Yeah, it's a partnership. I'll start with that one. [02:13:53:06 - 02:13:54:11] Rosie Yeah, yeah. [02:13:54:11 - 02:13:55:02] Steve Okay. [02:13:55:02 - 02:13:56:21] Rosie You won't talk about Luke Holmes. [02:13:56:21 - 02:13:58:07] Speaker 5 About what? [02:13:58:07 - 02:13:58:19] Rosie Luke Holmes. [02:13:58:19 - 02:14:02:23] Speaker 5 No, just talk about CineSight. I think just saying we've got, no, your partnership with CineSight. [02:14:02:23 - 02:14:03:17] Rosie Yeah, I'll just do that. [02:14:03:17 - 02:14:09:14] Speaker 5 And then the creative team I just wanted to say-- and work on them to be able to introduce the visual affairs and the experience and how that's-- [02:14:11:12 - 02:14:11:15] Speaker 5 Great. [02:14:14:04 - 02:14:15:19] Steve I've got it, I've got it, I've got the hook. [02:14:15:19 - 02:14:18:22] Rosie I'm just laughing, because I'm like, okay, right, I need to face myself. [02:14:20:00 - 02:14:24:21] Steve Trying to look at least similar to where we were about half an hour ago. Okay, I can't now, you set me off. [02:14:24:21 - 02:14:25:06] Rosie Sorry. [02:14:25:06 - 02:14:27:00] Steve Okay, it's all right. Okay. [02:14:28:10 - 02:14:28:17] Steve Sorry. [02:14:30:03 - 02:14:34:17] Steve It's like-- Do you not get the giggles, man? It's like out of the blue. I'm gonna look you right there and start laughing. Okay, right. [02:14:36:00 - 02:14:37:11] Steve Okay, so,