The Atomic Unit of Immersive Experiences: Why Presence is Everything

00:00:00,000 [Steve Usher] So Frances, Welcome to the experienced designers. 00:00:04,670 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. Truly. 00:00:07,830 [Steve Usher] Where are we right now? Where are we sitting? 00:00:10,050 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Right now, we're in the Cent Quatre, a center for arts, also an incubator. In the heart of Paris. 00:00:17,930 [Steve Usher] I know. And do you know what? Whenever I come to Paris, it's just a beautiful city. And I thought, with the opportunity to not only visit Paris, to meet yourself and dress up. 00:00:32,630 [Steve Usher] To stage a little mini experience on the experienced designers together. 00:00:36,990 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Aha. 00:00:38,550 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But you know, when in Paris. 00:00:41,089 [Steve Usher] When in Paris, indeed. 00:00:42,390 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Do as the Parisians. 00:00:44,590 [Frances Vieras Blanc] This is just a Tuesday, you know. 00:00:46,790 [Steve Usher] This is just Tuesday. Wait till Friday, people. Yeah. Okay, this is a full. This is a three or four-day serial. Okay. 00:00:54,330 [Steve Usher] But look, thank you so much for joining us. 00:00:57,790 [Steve Usher] I'd like to start actually with a bit of a long winded. question, but we're going to bring it into a specific area. But you live in the Pyrenees, which is a beautiful, very secluded place in the world. 00:01:13,060 [Steve Usher] Yet you've spent your life designing. 00:01:16,089 [Steve Usher] really impactful, immersive experiences around the world and really built up an amazing reputation. So I'm very grateful you're here. 00:01:25,820 [Steve Usher] And you've got this thing around this reputation around building immersive and immersion. It's a big passion of yours. But if we stripped away every. every screen, every costume, every detail, and really, and budget, and just got it right the way down to, I guess, an atomic unit level of a human experience. 00:01:49,460 [SPEAKER_2] What? 00:01:50,170 [Steve Usher] What is it that you've kind of been, if you bring all your 30 years together, kind of brought it into? What's that kind of essence at that atomic experience level? 00:01:59,550 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yeah. 00:02:01,260 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Great way to start. Wonderful question. 00:02:07,790 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I would have to say, in thinking of what would be the atomic unit of everything I do, and it's been a curvy journey. 00:02:16,690 [SPEAKER_2] Yeah. 00:02:17,390 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's not been a straight and narrow— I woke up one day and said, this is what I want to do tomorrow. It's I woke up and life had multiple paths for me, which I love. And it's really what allows me to do what I do today. But really, the atomic unit. 00:02:34,710 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I would have to say it's. 00:02:36,950 [Frances Vieras Blanc] presence. 00:02:38,010 [SPEAKER_2] Thank you. 00:02:38,130 [Steve Usher] Mm-hmm. 00:02:39,260 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Now, I'll explain. 00:02:40,940 [Steve Usher] Go deeper. 00:02:43,800 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Presence is the element. 00:02:48,040 [Frances Vieras Blanc] um. 00:02:50,060 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But people are what ignite it. So. 00:02:54,920 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I truly believe. 00:02:57,220 [Frances Vieras Blanc] That presence is at the heart of everything that I do and I believe that when we are fully present with oneself with other and with our environment, we are We are. immersed in kind of its purest form. Thank you. And in looking back at everything I've done over these years, it always comes down to presence, but presence with people again. So I originally started while I've always been in entertainment. 00:03:29,150 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And I've always had that. In parallel, I was doing politics. 00:03:32,920 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And I actually wanted to be an ambassador and I wanted to travel the world and change it one country at a time. And at one point I realized I was going to have much more impact. 00:03:42,690 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Um, outside of politics, going into story. So I moved into story, cinema, writing, screenwriting, and that's what I've dedicated the rest of my years. When I made that shift. And I realized that what I was doing was trying to create presence with people. And the vehicle is story. The technology was story to get people into presence. Again, when you're in a space and you're observing story. There's a connection. You're present. 00:04:12,160 [SPEAKER_2] Cool. 00:04:13,290 [Frances Vieras Blanc] What I ended up then transforming— or transferring— everything into then is immersive because what I can then do is instead of the story being seen, it can be held and felt. So then the presence is held. Fell and so once again, it's present with where I am with the people I'm around and with what's happening around me. 00:04:35,380 [SPEAKER_2] Amen. 00:04:35,880 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And so. It's really its presence is like truly that atomic unit. But the heart. And the catalyst is people. And those two together, when that fuses together, that is the combustion of what I do now. It's what fuels everything I do right now. I recently realized that one of my love languages is what I do and what I've always wanted to do, and that's one of them is quality time. So whether people you know appreciate the concept of this love languages or not, for me it was very eye-opening because I realized that quality time has been that precursor of how I express my love for community, for humanity, and for people. It is making sure that every moment is fully lived, however that takes shape. And so is it story-based or is it just a really great party that I'm hosting where people feel held and we co-hold the space? That's it. 00:05:36,410 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I thrive on people. And so I plug with people like that's where I get my energy. And so for me, that's where I'm truly present. 00:05:43,000 [Steve Usher] Yeah. Tell me, what was the phrase? Love. 00:05:46,680 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Oh, the love languages. Love languages. The five main love languages. 00:05:50,700 [Steve Usher] Tell us more about that. 00:05:52,530 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Um. 00:05:54,120 [Frances Vieras Blanc] In general, there are ways we accept and show love. And then this has also been used now within a work context, but they don't call it love. They'll call it appreciation. 00:06:05,310 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:06:06,420 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And the five main ways are quality time, which is one of my main ones, that I love to create. And I also love to receive. Gift giving. So I'm very big in my experience work and everything I design, there's always some kind of relic or anchor. You know, there's a gift. Actually, people tell me I'm very generous. With my design, because I love giving things. I also tell my husband he absolutely has to get me a gift, even if it's small, because I just want to open something on my birthday or on Christmas. I don't care. I just want something. It's my way of receiving it. 00:06:39,950 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:06:41,110 [Frances Vieras Blanc] There's words of affirmation. 00:06:44,289 [Frances Vieras Blanc] There's physical touch and there's acts of service. 00:06:48,390 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:06:49,500 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And the way we love may not be the, you know, the way we appreciate and show love might not be what we need to receive or vice versa. I love when people are acts of service for me, but also gifts. I love creating quality time for others, which is really just the platform of what I do. It's the foundation of everything I do. 00:07:06,090 [Steve Usher] God, I love that. 00:07:08,270 [Steve Usher] We have that, don't we, Nina? 00:07:11,020 [Steve Usher] It's really funny. As you just shared those five, I'm like, 'Oh my God,' we do that. And we love, we get energy from that, particularly hosting. And it's a really powerful thing. 00:07:21,600 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's my favorite thing. I love, I've been always the one that's known for the best, the parties and the hosting. And everyone comes to my house. My house is like the rec center, the recreation center. Come, let me just make this great space for you. 00:07:35,600 [Steve Usher] So we talked about presence, storytelling. 00:07:39,280 [Steve Usher] So, if I may—um— so we are we are here today. I'm present with you. What's the story? What are we? What are we immersing ourselves in today together? 00:07:53,780 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Um. 00:07:55,360 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Already. The Paris. Of course. The energy. You know, this city is so immersive. It is. The culture is so immersive, so rich. Our story of sharing what we love, who we are, how we're present with each other, and the story of the podcast. 00:08:13,280 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:08:13,800 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But here we are in this beautiful art space that really supports art. 00:08:18,400 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And thrives. Paris is great for supporting the arts and thriving in the arts, which is wonderful as a creator. Yes. You know, there's a lot of different funds. So it's, it's. 00:08:28,150 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's being present in this space even when alarms go off. When there's tap dancers in the back, we're all co-creating a shared presence together. Which is thriving around art. 00:08:39,390 [Steve Usher] Yes. 00:08:39,830 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And community. 00:08:40,840 [Steve Usher] I'd like to dispel a few myths with you today because, particularly, around this topic of immersion and immersive, for those that are in experience design, because I've seen on some of the forums, we're starting to call out some immersive experiences, because we don't want to water it down and lose the essence. Do we? But also, as well, we're starting to definitely see examples where immersive techniques are being used in the corporate to create impact, to create meaningful change inside of people. And boy, do we need to get some change going on. So I just wanted to ground for a moment in this word 'immersive' or 'immersion'. 00:09:19,370 [Steve Usher] What is it? What is it not? Let's get a common language around it. 00:09:23,970 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So I'm very happy you asked me that. And in complete serendipitous and micromagic moment. I have a little gift for you and Nina. 00:09:34,160 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Tada! So First. My pen's shameless plug. I will put those here for you. However, the most important part is. Peace. So to be able to respond to that question in a way that supports discovery, the discovery of the person who is also asking the question and truly inquiring, and as really just a practical tool. I created, a couple months ago, the Oracle of Immersion. 00:10:04,290 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:10:05,270 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So this is right now just a series of seven cards that actually gives you the five pillars of immersive, and I'll explain that in a second, plus two of my favorites. And this I give out to clients, potential clients, a lot of them predominantly in that business space. They really need to. 00:10:22,550 [Frances Vieras Blanc] That I hope can understand or have the tools to better understand. What immersive is because that is the question. Immersive can mean everything and nothing at the same time. Like a year ago, I think it was Pellegrino, San Pellegrino, who had an entire campaign and called their water 'immersive'. It was sparkling water. So, you know, I do have this personal mission. to really get people to understand what immersive can truly mean in the sense that we're using, the practical sense. There is immersion and flow, you know, theoretically, which are principles that we use in our work. And so these are based on, it was inspired by in March, there was the Immersive Industry Report that was published by. The Gensler Research Institute and the Immersive Institute in the United States, where they were able to distill, kind of like, the five main principles of what would constitute an immersive experience or what makes immersive immersive wow. 00:11:20,630 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Do we have all of them in an experience? You know, maybe not. Can we have some of them, you know, two or three out of them? That would be great if we have all five. Wonderful. You know, the whole goal is that we really try to create as much immersion as possible. So with these, I gift these to you. So that you can open them up because everything is in there. 00:11:37,820 [Steve Usher] Thank you so much. 00:11:39,620 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Now they're on French. Yes, please, by all means. 00:11:42,990 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:11:43,920 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And then we can just have a quick chat about what they are. 00:11:46,640 [Steve Usher] Okay. So this is Oracle de l'immersion. Okay. 00:11:51,300 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Oracle de l'immersion. So behind. 00:11:53,220 [Steve Usher] Okay, let's go. Yes. Should we go through them? 00:11:55,660 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yeah, let's go through. Okay. 00:11:56,660 [Steve Usher] So the first one. is less sense. 00:12:00,660 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yep, le sens. And so that is multi-sensory. 00:12:05,099 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So already one of the main elements is, is it multi-sensory? How many senses can we engage? Knowing that we go far beyond five senses to, I've read 33, 53. I mean, there's so many different senses that we can engage besides the five kind of. canonical senses. But yes, is there a multisensory element to it? 00:12:22,880 [Steve Usher] Very important. Yes. Very important one of my favorites. Second one. Uh, the road? 00:12:30,969 [Steve Usher] My French is terrible. 00:12:32,650 [Frances Vieras Blanc] No, but it's fabulous. I love it. 00:12:35,530 [Steve Usher] What's this one? 00:12:36,470 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So participation. 00:12:37,880 [Steve Usher] Aha. 00:12:38,740 [Frances Vieras Blanc] How are we giving the audience agency? 00:12:41,520 [Steve Usher] Agency. 00:12:42,000 [Frances Vieras Blanc] How are they participating? More or less. Are we actually, are we just designing for the participant in mind? I mean, all of experience design, the reason we exist and we do what we do is because we put the participant at the heart of what we do. 00:12:55,580 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:12:55,960 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And in immersive, you know, we tend to give them yet more of a role. 00:12:59,550 [SPEAKER_2] Yeah. 00:12:59,910 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Understanding that there's different types of participants. And ideally, we're going to design for at least three main types: people who really want to be part of it all the way, to people who just want to be present, but not too engaged, but at least we keep them in mind and we design for engagement. 00:13:13,270 [Steve Usher] I love that. I saw an amazing example with Hamlet live in Denmark. Yes. And the way they designed it. With Peter. 00:13:20,770 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I have a project with Peter right now. 00:13:22,510 [Steve Usher] He's amazing. 00:13:23,280 [Frances Vieras Blanc] He is amazing. I have a project with two Peters. We're all on the same project. So it's two Peters and me. And that's one of the Peters. 00:13:28,420 [Steve Usher] He's a lovely man. And the roles that they give are the full co-creator role or for those that just want to stand with their backs to the wall and everything in between. And the way that's designed intentionally, I mean, I love it. And maybe someone at the back will slowly inch forward and become more participatory. And little by little. Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:45,520 [Frances Vieras Blanc] One of my co-founders, so we were originally three, and one of my co-founders, Maddie, is highly introverted. And so it was really great to be able to design with her because I'm going to design for people. You know, I tend to design and want to design for people like me that are going to, you know, grab life by the everything, go for it. And Maddie will always be the one that's, you know, kind of bad, just being, holding space, actually, with her presence. And that also, she was engaged, but in a different way. And it was really great to design with her to have that perspective of it too. 00:14:17,930 [Steve Usher] Beautiful, beautiful. Next one, as my French gets even worse. Le Monde. 00:14:24,000 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Le Monde! 00:14:25,890 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But I like Null. Le Monde. 00:14:27,630 [Steve Usher] OK, Le Monde. 00:14:29,030 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Le Monde, the world, the universe, the story. 00:14:31,170 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:14:31,930 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So storytelling. 00:14:32,910 [Steve Usher] Massively important. Yes. 00:14:33,970 [Frances Vieras Blanc] What is the story? What is the theme? What's this container? that's holding the experience. However light or however heavy, for lack of a better term, is it physically a theme, circus, or is it conceptually a theme, curiosity? But there's a story that's being told. And we engage everybody in it. 00:14:56,340 [Steve Usher] That we can resonate to. Second one. 00:15:00,060 [Steve Usher] Love history. 00:15:01,420 [Frances Vieras Blanc] L'histoire. Oh, you know, I even made it. So actually, that's the story. The world is the container. 00:15:09,120 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:15:09,630 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So I've just, the space. So I've merged the two. So this is spatial narration. So this is the space. What space is the storytelling? 00:15:16,950 [SPEAKER_2] Mmm. 00:15:17,790 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Um, what story is the space telling there we go we know we know what we mean come on I mean I can't be perfect all the time So this is really space. So spatial narrative, the space. Once again, if I'm going to design for something in here, it might not be the same story. 00:15:32,170 [Frances Vieras Blanc] That if I'm going to design in a beautiful French bistro that is from the Belle Epoque era. 00:15:37,030 [SPEAKER_2] And more. 00:15:37,590 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Or maybe. But, you know, the idea is: what is the story the space is giving us? Yes. And then we're going to also bring that to life. And then that is actually the story. 00:15:47,439 [Steve Usher] Okay. 00:15:47,880 [Frances Vieras Blanc] What's the story we're telling? Which word do you discuss? 00:15:50,360 [Steve Usher] Love it. 00:15:51,910 [Steve Usher] Space is huge. Punch drum talk a lot about that. Like the space, they start a lot with the canvas and the space in which, and then from there. 00:16:01,490 [Steve Usher] Okay, I'm going to ask. 00:16:02,920 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So this is one of my favorites, and I already mentioned this word, l'étincelle, spark. 00:16:08,260 [Steve Usher] Spot? Okay, tell me more. 00:16:09,900 [Frances Vieras Blanc] What's the spark? What's the surprise? What's the micro magic? What's the moment where you're like, 'Oh, I didn't expect that. I didn't see that.' For companies, and the little guiding question on it is, 'How can you surprise your audiences? What is something you can do you never thought of doing?' But it's that moment of let's keep an element of surprise and spark available. 00:16:31,050 [Steve Usher] I love that. 00:16:33,240 [Steve Usher] Um, Le ressentir. 00:16:38,690 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Come on, you got it. What is it? Love feeling. 00:16:41,270 [Steve Usher] Oh, feeling. I was going well, okay, I went nuts. 00:16:44,280 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But the feeling, so that's another one of mine. So of course, all of this kind of, these are nuanced, but it's also, you know, again, with clients, it's really important. I love to start with, 'how do you want everybody to feel?' I mean, I think the vast majority of what we do is. It's kind of innate, natural. How do you want everybody to feel when they're done? Let's work backwards from there. What's our end? 00:17:02,960 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:17:03,500 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And then work back. Yes. And again, because we're human-centered design. 00:17:08,790 [Steve Usher] Yes. 00:17:09,250 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's all about how we want people to walk away. 00:17:10,849 [Steve Usher] And also, if you want a moment of surprise, maybe the emotion you're driving is complete or polar opposite to the way you want to get them to. Absolutely. But it's part of the journey. And that emphasizes the peak or. 00:17:22,670 [Frances Vieras Blanc] The moment that you're designing, yeah, it's the feeling, and that's really one of the Big pillars. I think that it's one of the biggest ones that's missing is that, especially when we are dealing with companies, that maybe are not within our universe and what we do, and are familiar with our line of work. And they want KPIs. 00:17:42,650 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:17:43,910 [Frances Vieras Blanc] They want hard numbers. Yes. And it's like, okay, that's great. How do you want people to feel? And it's a question that stumps almost any time I see a client that does not work in our space. That question is one of the biggest stumping questions. 00:17:55,940 [Steve Usher] And also one of the big searches right now is return on experience. ROX, yeah. ROX is a big one. But I'm also excited this year, I think at a couple of festivals, UK festivals, they tested, were trying testing Boontown. Oh, yeah. 00:18:12,199 [Steve Usher] Arc Tangent, thank you. I should remember that one. Oh, that one I'm not familiar with. With Jock. So they were testing real-time response by the brain of how they were experiencing the festival at various moments throughout the festival. So I think there's some really interesting neuro measurements. Yeah. I think that there's more to come. Is that with Paul Zaks? I think it was. One of them was, I can say for certain, for sure. 00:18:35,530 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Which is fantastic. See, that's what's really important. 00:18:36,950 [Steve Usher] We need more of that juice for sure. 00:18:38,650 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And that's that crossroad, that hybrid of the creativity, the art with the science. And that I love. I love. I'm really curious to see where we go with that. Oh, yeah. That'll better inform everything we can create. 00:18:51,420 [Steve Usher] We can get some science behind that. It'd be amazing. Well, we have some, but just in that context. OK. La transformation. 00:18:58,280 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Oui, la transformation. And transformation. So again, one of those main pillars that were discussed in the report was that, was, you know, and this is Joe Pine's work now, is we're going to go now. Even beyond the experience economy into the transformation economy, one of the biggest things they said in that white paper, published in March, was: 'We are no longer looking for experiences because, yes, we know now experiences really are going to be great, but what's the meaning behind the experience now? People are looking for meaning. There's a lack of connection and there's a lack of meaning, a sense, why, what direction am I heading? Yes.' And experiences that can also create and have transformation in mind, no matter however small, are the ones that are also now going to become what they estimated the trend— the moving forward of where we're moving beyond trend. I should say that what will be kind of like an industry standard which is going to go beyond the Instagram kind of experience to the experience that I walk away with and want to debrief about and want to. 00:20:00,690 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Because that. just transform me in a way that I never expected. 00:20:05,380 [Steve Usher] I think it's also this. 00:20:07,639 [Steve Usher] I think this year, 2026, for me, from what I've seen in the last few years, especially talking to now way many more practitioners. 00:20:17,530 [Steve Usher] Is definitely the year of transformation. Yeah, I think with the books coming out, transformation's kind of always been there. Um, but the the conversations I've had, particularly like Matt Durden, for example, was obviously the container of the experience. If it creates enough meaning and you have enough reflection to bring it inside of yourself to create that meaningful impact to trigger that transformation isn't always guaranteed. No. Because it's in the eyes of the beholder. But actually, I think, as we develop more as a practice, generally as an industry, I think we're going to be able to do more of it. I think way more intentionally. I think we're going to figure stuff out along the way. 00:20:54,050 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And again, it's intentionally. I think that's the word. Again, we cannot guarantee. You know, maybe more little by little, the science is going to be able to help us guarantee certain outcomes. But we all come to the table. We all come to every lived experience with our entire lived experience. The way we see our perspective, everything that is colored, who and what we are, is what we come to the table with at this moment. And so it's going to land differently on every single person. 00:21:20,280 [SPEAKER_2] Yeah. 00:21:21,520 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But if we can get to the point where intentionally do this. We hope to inspire transformation in people. 00:21:28,230 [Frances Vieras Blanc] You know, than I think, than our work. is, for lack of sounding trite, is here to help make this world a slightly better place. 00:21:36,350 [Steve Usher] Yeah, agree, agree. Brilliant. Thank you for this. Yes. 00:21:41,390 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And then you will get also a follow-up email with how to use them. 00:21:45,260 [Steve Usher] Yo okay yes see there's a little more to come okay i love it extension extension hello Amazing. Amazing. God, I got so immersed in this. Okay. So tell me a little bit about Think Outside. From the work that you do, amazing. 00:22:05,010 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yes thank you um so i you know as we do as entrepreneurs as creators we evolve yes um and so i originally started We started Eat the Cake Studio in 2019, 2019, 2020, and then COVID. Really, why we're dressed in costume and why at the WXO Summit last year we did the whole Marie Antoinette thing. We originally started with heritage experiences, specifically tourism. Based. So at that point, I realized there's not much— or many— immersive experiences offered to an Anglophone community in France around history. I'm a huge history buff. I was a tour guide in Paris for three and a half years, which immersed me so much in this city that I drove my husband crazy. We'd be walking the street and I'd be like, 'Do you know? Here, Henry IV was killed and here was, and he'd be like, 'That's, yeah, I don't want to, I got it.' But for me, it was like, 'But it's not just a random street. There's history is coming to life in my eyes because I know what happened.' And I wanted to do that the same for other people. 00:23:06,690 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And that was the catalyst for starting Eat the Cake. It was like I really wanted, I had quite a few times in my tour guiding. People would be like, 'Would it be great to know what it was like back then?' 00:23:18,760 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And so the idea was like, 'Well, let's Let's see if we can do that for them And then that has evolved through numerous entities, expressions, and reasons for being from the first signature universe, which was Marie Antoinette. Everybody knows Marie Antoinette, whether they know her truly or her real story. But at least it's a name people can understand. And so that already would be able to kind of like make it easier for people to understand what we're trying to accomplish. 00:23:42,840 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:23:43,620 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Moving on to where I am now, which is taking everything I know how to do in story and immersion. I love immersion. I love story so much. And putting that in the service of brand experiences. 00:23:59,670 [SPEAKER_2] Hmm. 00:24:01,020 [Frances Vieras Blanc] To give more meaning to brands, to make brands more relatable, to bring the world to life. Again, instead of walking the streets and be like, 'Oh, wouldn't it be nice to feel what it was like in that era?' Well, wouldn't it be really nice to understand what X brand really feels like? What are their true values? 00:24:16,920 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:24:17,860 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And so with that, last year, towards the end of the year, and you were saying transformation. Yeah, last year was a lot of that shedding of the skin for this year to enter that horse year of new ways of being. I launched, and I'm now launching, my kind of three new services, which are Think Outside the Booth. Think Outside the Box, traditional, and Think Outside the Boutique. So it really was born with, last year I had the pleasure. I was invited to give a keynote at IMEX. Frankfurt and I remember walking the trade show floor and being like, 'I've done many trades at hundreds.' and thinking nothing much has changed. 00:24:59,490 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But there was one booth that caught everyone's eye. And it was an immersive, story-based booth. It was New Zealand and they had made this entire Hobbit. I mean, but it was living and breathing. It was, you'd open the mailbox. First they had the round Hobbit house and the red door and the mailbox and you'd open it because I'm going to open it, of course. I'm going to go for it. I'm glad it opened. And there's like a little letter, but written in like Hobbit language. And everything was covered in real plants. It was plush. And there was like the porch had a smoking pipe that was smoking all day long. It felt lived. It felt alive. And it felt inviting. 00:25:41,660 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And I was like, see, this is what I think the booth experience, the trade show experience could be like. 00:25:49,460 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:25:50,450 [Frances Vieras Blanc] You're already spending so much time and resources into into these experiences, these booths. Where's the story? So that was really the catalyst of like, wait a minute, there's some space here. To there's some space here to work in. 00:26:04,650 [Steve Usher] Yep. 00:26:04,850 [Frances Vieras Blanc] This is an area not many people are touching. 00:26:07,010 [Steve Usher] Well, as we mentioned in the cards, we have a space. 00:26:09,390 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And we have a space. 00:26:10,770 [Steve Usher] We have a space. Yeah. Do you know what? I couldn't agree with you more. Trade shows have just – it feels like events and their business model have just been the same forever. Yeah. 00:26:22,650 [Steve Usher] But, huge opportunity. I think this is a great example. What we just explored here is like this kind of emergence between a business old way of thinking and bringing this kind of skill set and approach into this space. 00:26:33,110 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And speaking their language, because of course, you know, I'm going to talk about emotion and creativity, but then it's impact. 00:26:40,770 [SPEAKER_2] Hmm. 00:26:41,530 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So, and then what does impact lead to? More business. Yes. And so there's, for me, it's trying to find, bridge that gap between what I see possible, what I love to do and what I want to do and helping them also. 00:26:55,240 [Frances Vieras Blanc] get more business. I mean, that's also the bottom line of why clients are going to hire us. But for me, it's going to go through, you know. 00:27:03,560 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Emotion, visibility, impact. 00:27:06,500 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's going to go through meaning. It's going to go through connection. Leads because you've made real engagement with people. So that's how that one came to life. And then the other ones came to life with, you know, again, how do we think outside the box when it comes to roadshows and pop-ups. Very much like I know guests of yours have discussed the psychology behind pop-ups and really how to bring those worlds to life in a way that maybe for the brand is a fun, creative way to test new things out. And then, even think outside the box, which is the least creative because it truly means think outside the box, but it's packaging, product launches, go beyond the package. 00:27:39,580 [SPEAKER_2] Yes. 00:27:40,000 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Again, how can we bring that product to life? 00:27:42,080 [SPEAKER_2] Yeah. 00:27:42,370 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And so those are the three new things, which maybe seems a bit like a departure from all the entertainment work I've done, stage, you know, film, video games. But it's everything I've learned, again, in that kind of winding path. Here with real concrete ROX and ROI. 00:27:59,220 [SPEAKER_2] Yeah. 00:27:59,580 [Steve Usher] And you know, this is like this—I've seen this for a few years and I'm so glad to hear that this is something you're venturing into, because this is needed and we need to shake things up. The competition, since as I said earlier in this conversation, was the competence mix that is available to leverage some of these techniques, tools, and methodologies, and mindsets in these different contexts. Taking a simple, you know, a square box, basically a booth, transforming it into something that actually it's interesting. To the point of this thing is your. You shared this example of the Hobbit, you described it to a level of detail, because it burned the memory inside of you. It connected with you on a level that stood out to everything else for a reason. So the techniques were there, it was happening right. That you just proof is in the pudding, right? It's kind of like you should do that. 00:28:49,420 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But it was the emotion of like, yeah. Oh, like, you know, again, that emotional connection. Like, oh, I get to be a kid again. Like, I'm playing in a Hobbit town. This is so cool. 00:28:57,610 [Steve Usher] Who doesn't want to play in a Hobbit? 00:28:58,730 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yeah, and what was great is that that was just the front. When you opened the door, you went into the booth. It was a little more on the traditional end. But I wanted to open the door. 00:29:07,470 [Steve Usher] Very cool. 00:29:08,030 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I wanted to be there. The line was really long. I was with Miguel, actually. We were taking tons of photos. But the line was really long to get in there. And it was a testament to what's possible. Can I tell you, like, would I be able to tell you what some of the other countries who spent maybe more money on their booth? 00:29:23,750 [Steve Usher] Good. 00:29:24,290 [Frances Vieras Blanc] No. It was, you know, it was nice. It was two floors, maybe two floors gold. Yeah. There wasn't an emotional connection. It was functional. Ideally, can we get to function and emotional connection? Would be the best. That's where we're headed to. 00:29:38,280 [Steve Usher] There's some serious cash. You go to these ones and they are enormous. They're huge. 00:29:41,820 [Frances Vieras Blanc] They're cities by themselves. 00:29:43,000 [Steve Usher] They're six figures. Yeah, yeah. 00:29:45,939 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Maximize the effort and the resources that are being put in there, and just think differently. About what we do to use someone else's slogan. Think differently. There's other ways to do this, the business, that will most likely augment the business and the revenue you're already making. 00:30:02,520 [Steve Usher] Yep. Can I just ask, go back over it because it's really interesting. I've met other experienced designers, and there is no single route into this. There's so many. 00:30:11,830 [Steve Usher] Roundabouts and all sorts. 00:30:14,650 [Steve Usher] What are some of the kinds of really amazing skill sets or backgrounds or areas of knowledge that you think really have a huge opportunity to have this transition over and bring value into this more business corporate world? What elements do you see that really could hit hard and well? 00:30:34,210 [Frances Vieras Blanc] elements of what we do already or the elements that get us into our industry. 00:30:40,230 [Steve Usher] Both. 00:30:41,400 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Great question. What I do love is that we do all come from such different invests. 00:30:47,959 [Frances Vieras Blanc] different backgrounds. So when it comes to industry-based, no two people have the exact same path. 00:30:54,090 [Steve Usher] No. 00:30:55,560 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And that's great. And I love that because it's such a horizontal industry where, you know, everything comes into, oh, that makes my expression of what I do. 00:31:07,840 [Frances Vieras Blanc] So some of what we do that are really in service of more Business-based. You know, one of the biggest things, interestingly enough, so going back to when I moved to France and I didn't speak any French at that time, hard to find work. And I was hired as a professional business English teacher, trainer for high-end companies. I was at Hermès. I was at the Banque de France teaching C-suite. Sometimes even sitting in the chair where the Emperor set— Napoleon. 00:31:39,720 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And the reason they hired me, even though I wasn't technically certified, was because I came from theater and I had an improv. 00:31:50,419 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And that's something I see often, how to use kind of theatrical or improv skills. Yes. For spontaneity, for creative thinking. 00:31:57,990 [Steve Usher] Yep. 00:31:58,670 [Frances Vieras Blanc] For engagement, the ultimate and the simplest is 'yes' and 'no'. 00:32:02,750 [Steve Usher] Hmm. 00:32:04,010 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Negotiation goes no further when the 'no' is introduced. In negotiation, in collaborative projects, in actual negotiation. Once the 'no' is around, the block is done. 00:32:15,460 [Steve Usher] Yeah. 00:32:16,220 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And so the 'yes' and is one of the simplest tools that I would teach just in English to get people past, help people get past their barriers of like perfection. 00:32:28,890 [SPEAKER_2] Mm-mm. 00:32:29,950 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And then it's something that I do, you know, I train with my actors constantly so that we're, especially in immersive, so that we're always available to work with whatever comes at us. The 'yes' and, of course, yes. Um, in human relations? 00:32:45,770 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And again, in business. It's really hard when you're in a business meeting. 00:32:50,540 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And unfortunately, France is a culture where they're often led by the 'no first.' 00:32:57,330 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I come from the States where we're very diplomatic and we're going to want to be like, 'Yes, oh, but I can't.' 00:33:01,980 [SPEAKER_2] Hmm. 00:33:02,700 [Frances Vieras Blanc] But we're going to lead with the 'yes' and the French lead with the 'no' and then they'll get to the 'yes.' 00:33:07,520 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's a challenge because then you really don't know how much more you can actually collaborate. What else can you say, do? So for me, it's really simple. For me, some of the biggest skills that have been the most productive in a multitude of industries was my theater training. 00:33:23,720 [Steve Usher] Yeah, agree. 00:33:25,940 [Steve Usher] I've got this kind of hypothesis in this as well, in that The narrative right now in business, particularly driven by AI right now, is this obviously huge transformation. I mean, everyone's going, 'Oh my God,' which way is it going to go? That's going to reveal itself over time. However, we don't have control over that. And I think there's this question for me is like this time that it will save and it will save us time. This goes back to the early car element as well. It's like we can spend well, where do we what do we want to spend the time on it, and how do we get intentional about that. Um, but also, to this point, as is, like if we're going to go through this kind of profound transformation, we have more people on the planet more than ever, we have huge sustainability issues, uh, obviously there's a lot of kind of political issues. Um, is how do we take people through this transformational period? 00:34:16,820 [Steve Usher] But we do need to wake people up. And there is a reality that we, there's a lot of people in these, we need to speed up our own transformation to a degree. And I don't mean to create pressure. It's not coming from a place of, 'Oh my God.' We must do this. But in order for us to adapt, I believe that theatre has a very good shot at creating containers to take. Groups of people from a corporate environment through, that creates almost immediate, it could create immediate shifts inside of people. That goes beyond L &D nudges and digital learning techniques. And so that's something which I definitely see. I think there's more of that to come. 00:34:55,310 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And I love it because the word is so simple, adapt. And yet that's, we become a community, a society where it's not always easy to adapt. And then when we don't adapt, we are marginalized or it's us and them. 00:35:10,490 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Again, it would just be great if it was just the yes and. Yes, I exist and so do you. 00:35:15,390 [Steve Usher] Yeah. 00:35:15,910 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And thanks to that. 00:35:18,650 [Frances Vieras Blanc] There's multitude of expressions of who we are and that is okay. 00:35:23,220 [Frances Vieras Blanc] We don't, we're so used to no but. 00:35:27,070 [Steve Usher] Yep. Oh yeah. 00:35:28,819 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And it's actually one of the things we do. My husband and I are really particular with my kids. My kids have, I think, again, French kids in general. There's this 'no me, no me, no but, no but.' And we've actually told them they're not allowed to say that anymore. No but is not allowed. And when they do, they get penalized. We have to always figure out what it is. It's like no dessert, you know. Yes, the bribing works. Sorry, Parenting 101. But it's also for them to understand. We are trying to get them into the 'yes' and. My husband is French. He has a French company. And little by little, he's implemented that because he also realized how powerful it was, how simple it was, because it just opens the door. For a possibility. Because when the no arrives. We just cannot communicate anymore. Where it's much more difficult. 00:36:13,070 [Steve Usher] Love it. 00:36:13,850 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And so we, I, you know, to sound Pollyanna, we would be such. A better world if we just accepted. The yes and, we're all here. Everybody has a purpose here. 00:36:23,130 [Steve Usher] Yeah. Yes, I am. 00:36:25,160 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yes. Yes. And, and I love it again for the micro magic. Yes. And where's it going to take me? My all time favorite moment, a burning man. Was it 100% led, powered by? Yes and. And other things. But, you know, that's a whole other podcast. But the yes and. I had to go on a mission for a specific reason. I was sent. to find Cutters? Uh, by myself. And I was like, well, yes and. And that, to this day, of all the Burning Mans I went to, was my most cherished moment. It led me on such an amazing journey. It was fantastic. Just because I yes and my way through it. Sure. Over there, that's, yeah, I'll go over there. Here? Yeah. It's that micro magic. It's the spontaneity of life. 00:37:05,940 [Steve Usher] Love it. So on the Experienced Designer Show, you're very much an experienced designer. 00:37:12,440 [Steve Usher] Look at me. Look at what Frances did. 00:37:18,020 [Frances Vieras Blanc] You're welcome. 00:37:19,260 [Steve Usher] You're welcome, thank you. 00:37:23,960 [Steve Usher] What do you see? What are you hoping for in 2026? What's your kind of— Yeah, what are you hoping for? 00:37:33,080 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yeah, it's such a great question, also. Um. 00:37:39,660 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I have a lot of answers. 00:37:41,360 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Share them. 00:37:46,960 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Honestly, understand. On a personal level, on a political level, and society level, I really wish we got to a point where we could just understand each other. And again, accept each other. Um, on a professional level. I'm really excited about the doors to all these new opportunities that are arising. The projects coming up that I have right now are highly inspiring because they're thinking outside the box in a couple different areas. 00:38:16,380 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Innovating, Disrupting. New spaces. And that's. That's really, I think, the most powerful part is the Taking our tools. And. creating possibility in other sectors that don't yet know they need and can benefit from it. 00:38:34,130 [SPEAKER_2] Yeah. 00:38:35,380 [Frances Vieras Blanc] I'm really looking forward to this year. 00:38:38,700 [Frances Vieras Blanc] being full of magic. 00:38:40,120 [Steve Usher] Yeah, nice. 00:38:40,940 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And I think that's also just going to be kind of my coping strategy. 00:38:43,480 [Steve Usher] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:38:44,380 [Frances Vieras Blanc] It's like, how am I going to get through the outside of what's happening in the world? And it's, I'm just going to be open to magic. to joy, I'm gonna be the change, again, to sound a little trite. I'm gonna be excited about that. 00:38:57,390 [Steve Usher] Nice. How do we close our time together? 00:39:00,990 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Should we? 00:39:03,380 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Should we, you know, the name of the company is Eat the Cake. 00:39:06,460 [Steve Usher] Okay. Love it. 00:39:08,470 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Yeah. And the original show I was building was called Let Them Eat Cake. It never opened because of COVID. We were so close. And yet, you know, as the queen would do, as we would do, is we will have our cake and eat it too. 00:39:19,630 [Steve Usher] I love it. Shall we? Shall we? Shall we chin? 00:39:21,570 [Frances Vieras Blanc] This is a chin. 00:39:22,450 [Steve Usher] Chin chin. 00:39:23,540 [Frances Vieras Blanc] And Oh, that's good. Oh. 00:39:29,330 [Steve Usher] Enjoy. 00:39:31,470 [Steve Usher] Frances, thank you so much for this experience. I'm so grateful. 00:39:37,770 [Steve Usher] I get to meet somebody that I've heard about on several occasions and now we get to actually spend some time together. But above all, thank you for being your energy. Your passion, clearly, and your knowledge to the experienced designers. You're a true experienced designer. 00:39:51,110 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Thank you. 00:39:51,850 [Steve Usher] So thank you so much. 00:39:52,890 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Thank you very much. It was truly an honor and a pleasure to be here and to meet you. Last year, I danced behind you at the end of the summit. Oh, at the Indian. We jive-hoed together. I was right behind you. I'm short, so people often don't see me. But it was really great to officially have this opportunity. 00:40:09,100 [Steve Usher] Amazing. 00:40:09,930 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Bon appetit. 00:40:10,510 [Steve Usher] Bon appetit. Cheers. Cheers. Ciao. 00:40:14,770 [Steve Usher] Mmm. 00:40:15,620 [Frances Vieras Blanc] Oh, that's good.